Angel Season 5 comments

[labrynth]

So I finally am getting around to watching Angel Season 5, which I didn't watch when it aired for like a thousand reasons. I actually deeply miss not being able to discuss those eps at the Bronze (*sniff* I think I miss the episode debates the most from that place), so even tho I'm a few years behind I thought I'd make some comments here.

General thoughts:

*sigh* even tho she has had some of the best lines, I think I could still live without Harmony. I could handle her in smaller does (Harmony? Has minions?), but she just kinda grates now.

Same for Spike. I still hate what they've done to him. He was much more fun without the stupid soul. While I admit he seems more his old self now than he did in the last two seasons of Buffy, I still find he rubs me wrong. And not in a good way. Puppy should have bee left dead. I'm sure skitty hates me now.

Eve. Evil. Duh.

Lorne. Can we please see more Lorne? Why make him a main character if we're never going to see him?

Gunn is evil. Ok, maybe not full fledged evil just yet, but he certainly feels like he's closer than anyone else. Never let the baddies play with your brain. I mean does it really need to be said? And while yes, they DID need a lawyer type in their ranks, I'm still a tad surprised at Gunn's need to be it.

Wesley. Meh. He's Wesley. Nothing of note really.

Fred... she's very at home in her lab, but I still like seeing her. She almost seems to be the grounding force among the group these days.

Angel. Poor, poor Angel. I KNEW they would put the Shanshu up for grabs, which is part of the reason I didn't watch the season when it aired originally.

Anyone else notice that Buffy, Sunnydale, etc are mentioned more in the first half of this season alone than the other four seasons COMBINED? Uh, why? Just curious as to why we're suddenly referencing it all the time. Not that I mind, it just seems strange after they seemed to avoid it so much previously.

Specific episode thoughts:

Conviction:

Hmmm, I guess not bad. Spike was missing for most of the ep, which suited me fine. It's nice to see Angel is uncomfortable with the whole thing with WR&H. He needs to be. Again, Eve? Evil. Duh. I mean come on. Seriously, like we should expect anything different. I guess it was overall a nice segway into a season that doesn't have Buffy to support it. I didn't hate it, but didn't love it either.

Just Rewards:

*sigh* Shanshu, already covered that. Tho it was nice to see Angel get some hope on it again. I still maintain that Spike has done shit to deserve it. Does one act of kindness redeem hundreds of acts of selfishness? Cause it seems to me that's what it comes down to. The baddie was interesting, tho I was disappointed Angel wasn't smart enough to understand the implications of dealing with a man of his.... talents. Dead body and all. I fell for the Spike switcherroo.... I was yelling the whole time.

Unleashed:

I actually enjoyed this eppy. It was nice to see Angel help the helpless again without the entourage. Also nice to see him work thru some of the things he's been dealing with for a long time concerning who he is. Just because something was done to you doesn't mean your life has to be over. Seems to me it could be a metaphor for a lot of things in life actually.

Hell Bound:

Even tho this was a Spike-centric eppy, I still enjoyed it somewhat. Why am I not surprised WR&H is built on the blood of a serial killer? I mean really. Spike seems to have grown quite a soft spot for Fred. Good, maybe it will keep him away from Buffy. Wait. Did I say that out loud? Anyway. Is it just me or does Spike's only purpose seem to be to voice what Angel is supposed to be thinking and feeling? Do we really need that? Seems to me anyone who has ever watched the show can figure it out easily enough without Mr. States-The-Obvious around.

Life of the Party:

Nice to see a Lorne eppy. Probably not the strongest episode ever, but enjoyable if you take it at face value I guess. I think Lorne was manifesting the thing all of them were feeling, that they just couldn't keep up anymore. WR&H is wearing them down, just in the ways they didn't truly expect. That's the thing about evil. It's evil.

The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco:

It's been obvious since the beginning of the season that Angel has disconnected. While I'm not sure we needed this emphasized it was kind of nice to see him helping someone help themselves I guess. The tale rang home for Angel I think, which is a good thing since he seems to need all the grounding he can get these days. Of course what are they going to do in another 50 years?

More to come later....

[labrynth]

More Angel reviews:

Lineage

While I think we all suspected Wesley's father to be exactly what we saw, it was still a bit harsh to see it come to life. It's very obvious Wesley never managed to live up to his father's expectations and even more obvious that he knows it. But somehow he still cares. While this was a strong episode for Wesley it didn't leave a lot of impression with me I guess.

Harm's Way

What an awful episode. Had some great lines in it, even ones by Harmony, but what a waste of an episode. Like I give a damn what goes on in Harmony's life. *sigh* Can we just stake her please? I DID like the fact she acknowledges the fact she's tried to be bad, but didn't do too well at it. She may be a vampire but somehow she still seems to be Harmony at heart. She's always tried too hard to fit in and be what everyone wanted or expected. We've seen it a number of times previously, but it's really brought o light here I think. Perhaps if I gave a shit about Harmony the eppy might have been better for me, but I just don't care.

Soul Purpose

Ahh Lindsey. Ballsy using Doyle's name. Ballsy but smart I guess. Again I'm not sure we really need to see Angel's fears. We already know them. Why are we suddenly getting all this affirmed insight into Angel? Angel always had some issues with Spike, even as Angelus. While it was never stated, I think we were shown several times that he feared losing control and power to him. So why does it need to be shown so blatantly now? This ranks up there with the whole Eve is Evil. Duh. Thing. Angel has issues? Uh, yeah we know that. We've known it for SEVEN YEARS PEOPLE!!!! It's not a news flash anymore. Did like that Angel caught on to Eve. Might have been the plan in the end, but it was nice to see WR&H didn't suck out his brain with everything else. Spike saving him was pitiful but expected I think. At some point I'll have to start keeping a runny tally.

Damage

Wow, I really liked this episode tho I had a lot of problems with it. I have a VERY hard time believing that Buffy, Giles, Willow, etc wouldn't have told Angel what they had done to the Slayer line. They had to have considered there was the possibility that a damaged Slayer would be floating around. They can't possibly find them all. Hell, even the Watcher's Council couldn't find them all as Buffy proves. So even if Buffy herself didn't call, and even if Andrew is right that they don't trust him anymore, I still find it awful hard to believe that no one would give him a head's up just to prevent collateral damage. Which brings me to Andrew. Why in the nine hells would they send him? Why is he suddenly a trusted ally? They didn't trust him when they went into the Hellmouth, they just needed all the hands they could get. I'm sorry but I don't buy Andrew as a “good guy”. I don't care how much supposed good he does. He only does it to save him own skin, so IMO, he's no more a good guy than Ethan Rayne. Ethan may be more aggressive in his approach to badness, but sometimes just standing aside while shit happens is worse than being the cause. Buffy couldn't have sent someone more credible? Again I have a hard time believing this, if nothing more than the fact even if Andrew is right and she doesn't trust him (And how often have we seen Andrew exaggerate, hell even in this eppy alone?), she would still show some basic RESPECT. Which to me, sending Andrew pretty much was like spitting in his face. Sorry, but I just don't buy it. Then again I never really bought Andrew as a character anyway I guess. Bad guy or semi redeemed good guy. Him hugging Spike was hysterical tho. So, Spike can track Dana the old fashioned way but Angel can't? Huh? I don't get it. If Angel is so desperate to find this girl why is he doing what he seems to despise? I don't understand that.

I actually kind of wish that Spike HAD been the one to kill Dana's family, etc. We have yet to see Spike face one of his victims the way Angel has had to do many times in the past (Most notably in Amends). So far Spike has yet to really have to come face to face with the damage he's done. But I guess if he had been the one, then we would have had a hard time liking him after that. However in the back of my mind I kinda figured he wasn't. He hadn't been invited into the house and no matter how bad William the Bloody was, he never seemed keen on using drugs on his victims. *sigh* I still think that might have been a better twist. However I suppose too if it had been Spike, Dana might not have been talked down, even slightly.

And once again it brings me back to Andrew. PUHLEASE. We're supposed to believe he's going to stand up to Angel? WTF? I don't think so. And as I stated before, why should we believe Andrew that Buffy doesn't trust him anymore? While I don't doubt that Buffy feels Dana belongs to her so to speak, I still have a hard time believing she would show Angel that kind of disrespect. Sorry, but I'm just not buying it. Andrew is likely still working in their ranks (If nothing more than so they can keep an eye on him), but I still find it hard to believe he'd be in charge of anything except maybe getting lunch.

Interesting concept we haven't explored previously that both Spike and Angel were the victims once.

You're Welcome

Ah, finally, a voice of reason. I was never really horribly sorry to see Cordelia go, but was very glad to see her back for this. Angel needed the swift kick in the ass only Cordelia could give him. Maybe it's just her personality that works for it, or maybe it's the history they shared, reaching all the way back to Sunnydale. But again I felt like she was only saying what we already knew Angel was thinking.

Lindsey got his ass kicked. *snicker* Sorry but that amuses me greatly. While I'm sad to see the character go because he's so much fun, it was bound to happen. Also, did anyoen else feel like that fight scene got ripped out of Blade? LOL the bf happened to be sitting there for it and he was like, “Couldn't they have just gotten Stephen Dorff to come do this?”

We also get to see Angel kick Spike's ass. Heh, I don't need to go into how much fun that was.

Sorry but I'm still not buying that Angel and Cordelia were in love. They can make with the icky smoochies all they want, but I still don't feel it.

Also nice to see that TPTB haven't up and disappeared, which was kind of the feeling we were getting from the first eppy till now. One door closes and another opens, but is WR&H really a door they wanted open?


That's as far as I've gotten thus far....

[destructogirl30]

"They didn't trust him when they went into the Hellmouth, they just needed all the hands they could get. I'm sorry but I don't buy Andrew as a “good guy”. I don't care how much supposed good he does. He only does it to save him own skin, so IMO, he's no more a good guy than Ethan Rayne. Ethan may be more aggressive in his approach to badness, but sometimes just standing aside while shit happens is worse than being the cause."

For the record I completely agree with you on this statement, I don't feel that Andrew ever changed, he only professed remorse when he feared for his own life. I think that Andrew is great for comic relief but a trusted watcher NO!

Melissa

[Skitty]

I just wanted to pop in and say I actually agree. Spike coming back was kind of lame. I loved having him back, I did. But at the same time I was like....oh come on.

And when I get home tonight, I'm going to link something you guys will LOVE. So come back round 11.

[labrynth]

Why We Fight review:

Wow this episode held so much that I'm not eve sure where to start. I really wish I had been around the Bronze for this discussion.

Well, we know as vampires get reeeeeeally old they become more batlike, so I suppose we're supposed to gather that the Prince of Lies is very old. Old as the Mater, older? Would have been interesting to know a little more about him since those two are the only really old vamps we've ever seen.

Hmmmmmm, is this the beginning of the Initiative? I forgot what he called it... Human something Initiative. Very interesting. Will we see more of this? I also have to wonder what it was they told Angel that made him go along with it. Let's face it, Angel at this point wasn't inclined to do anything he didn't want to do without a reason. So what reason did they give him? Was it enough hat Spike was there? Was it enough that they might have known the Nazis were planning on using vampires to win the war for them? Something had to prod him into action and I highly doubt their threats were enough to do it. Angel didn't have anyone left to threaten that he gave a damn about, and he doesn't even really give a damn about himself at this point either. So what exactly was it that spurred him into action?

I liked the bottom of the sea reference. Especially since Connor dumped him there and all. The way it was played made me think Angel had a bit of a fear of being trapped in such a way already and Connor totally played that.

Sorry, but I liked Lawson. He was just a nice guy who got screwed. *sigh*

Anyone else notice that Angel is going for long stretches without ever being in vamp face? We're seeing him go for one or two episodes without it. Which makes me wonder if it's intentional. Is WR&H eating away only at his humanity? Or is it eating the other half of him as well? It's chipped away at what has made him a Hero, but without his time as a vampire, he wouldn't be the Hero we know. In fact, he likely would have died in the gutter.

LOL at the Rasputin's lover thing. I don't know what that made me laugh, but it did. Otherwise that vamp was pretty unremarkable.

So, Spike obviously doesn't know about the soul, even several decades later. I'm kinda surprised Darla didn't shout it from the rooftops. Then again, maybe she thought it reflected badly on her. At any rate it's very obvious Spike still defers to Angelus. Which in some ways strikes me as a bit odd. Spike's obviously been on his own for a time but he never really puts up a fight over who's in charge. Huh.

Speaking of, anyone get that Wolverine vs. Cyclops feeling for those two? The whole “Yup, you're still a dick” line seemed straight out of the movies.

Oh wow, Angel shared some of his soul when he sired Lawson as a souled vamp. Now isn't that an interesting little twist. Did Angel know it would happen when he made the choice to change Lawson? Lawson is obviously bitter over the fact. He can't be human but he can't really be a vampire either cause he feels guilty enough about what he does to make him miserable. I also find it interesting that Angel made that choice. He hated what he was by then and he had to decide to put another human in his place, at least in part. Was he looking at the bigger picture with the lives that might be saved with the technology or was he only thinking of the immediate crew and perhaps that Lawson might get to have some kind of life after that? And if Lawson went out and killed (Which he kind of had to do if he survived a while), does Angel feel responsible for those lives lost?

*snerk* Anyone else starting to feel like the windows at WR&H are the grandfather clock of Charmed? How many times can you fix these things? How long until the Senior Partners decide they don't have enough money in the budget for repairs? Sorry, I was a bit amused by the thought.

This makes me think more of the Spike and Angel as victims idea. Is Angel a victim here, possibly of the Initiative? Is Lawson really a victim? He admits they left on the mission knowing they might not make it back. Is Spike a victim because the Germans snagged him and threw him on a sub? Hmm.

[labrynth]

destructogirl30 said:

For the record I completely agree with you on this statement, I don't feel that Andrew ever changed, he only professed remorse when he feared for his own life. I think that Andrew is great for comic relief but a trusted watcher NO!

Melissa

I was starting to think I was the only one who thought Andrew was lame as hell. He really just needed to be offed. I understand why they felt they had to kill Anya in a way, why WHY OH WHY couldn't Andrew have gone too?

I still can't fathom why we were supposed to believe that Andrew heads any kind of operation for Slayers, Inc other than they didn't know what to do with him once they added him. *sigh* I wish Jonathan had survived instead...